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Old 03-18-2016, 10:32 PM
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rancherman rancherman is offline
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Default '00 croaked today

Here we go again.. probable vp44 flushed down the drain.
I was tooling along, and lifted off the throttle for a curve in the road. When I rolled back into it.. nothing! I thought at first I had a dead pedal scenario.. but engine fails to restart.
I checked fuel delivery, and there is plenty of flow and PSI. *18 lbs with engine not running.

I am getting no codes, no fuel to the loosened injectors, so I'll try the hot wire method to see if I can get it to at least idle.
I got a bad feeling I have a stuck rotor head.
This current vp44 is one I replaced about 4 years ago with what I originally thought was from DAP. I believe I paid about 900 bucks for it. Seems like it came from a different supplier.. I would've sworn it was postmarked from Illinois? IIRC industrial injection was on the box too. At the time, I didn't care, it seemed to work just fine. I just assumed they were 'working' together.
I do remember contacting them to assure that the electronics were 'new'.. and they told me that yes, indeed they are. That's all I needed to hear!
So.. with all that 'out of the way', time to go on the hunt!
Along with new electronics, what about these 'other' upgrades I'm reading about?
Steel sleeved barrel to eliminate the aluminum wear,
shaft bushing upgrade?

The wrecker just dropped off the truck a couple hours ago, so tomorrow I'll see 'whats what'.
But I'm just preparing myself for worst case scenario.. and looking to find something that lasts a little longer than 50-60k miles!
IIRC, DAP, industrial injection, Vulcan, Bluchip seemed to be the front runners 4 years ago.
LOL, of course, prices have gone up since then too! Seems like 11-1200 is kinda the low end, and Bluechip has them all the way up to 4000. But to be fair, BC has the basic pump/new electronics for about 1800-1900. Then they offer the same pump with used electronics for almost 1000 bucks less. I can't believe the new electronics are 1000 bucks! If that is true, how come DAP can offer the pump with new electronics for a grand total of 1200???
Anyhoo, first things first! I need to verify that the pump is shot to hell, and go from there!
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Just gonna list the Mopar stuff:
2000 ram 3500 4X4 reg cab, 6 speed, fass 02 drrp
1998 ram 2500 4X4 reg cab, 12v will have 6 speed to replace the 5, Not sure where it's headed in the mod dept. Stay tuned!
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD, No more EGR, greendiesel eco tune, weeks' intake elbow, hemi torque converter
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Old 03-19-2016, 11:53 AM
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MnTom MnTom is offline
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Well that certainly puts a damper on your weekend...... Sounds like you already have been looking into who would have the best pump for your truck and money. From what I understand, if the electronics are not replaced the pump is not a 'certified' rebuilt. The 'certified' electronics are sent to a rebuilder as a blank unit and are burned to what the specs are for the intended purpose. The updates you speak of are pretty much standard in a 'certified' rebuilt but can be hit or miss on a "non-certified" pump. I can't speak from experience on any of the specs on the VP since I still run a P-7100.
I see Thoroughbred Diesel has a pump with a one year warranty for $975 and a two year warranty for $1149.
Blue Chip has them from $1196 and they only offer a two year warranty.
Industrial Injection has pumps from $1150. I don't know what they have for a warranty.
I know there are quite a few others out there that sell pumps too. Guess now you need to spend time calling places.........
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1996 RAM "Custom Ground" 100 plate 3/4 forward, 300 injectors, 16.5 timing, Goerends Auto = 365HP, 833TQ Third Gen Rims, Aluminum Headache Rack
Duct Tape can't fix stupid, BUT it can muffle the sound
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Old 03-19-2016, 12:08 PM
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rancherman rancherman is offline
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Ya know, Tom, I am wondering about who actually 'works' on these pumps!

when reading through the description, very rarely does the term 'in house' come up!

DAP, for instance, are they just a reseller??? I see BDdiesel products (IP's) listed, as well as Industrial Injection products too..

Bluechip, after reading the pages and pages on that website, I'd guess they are building 'in house'.

I wonder what exactly is considered "Bosch" certified 'upgrades'?? The flash part?

Then, I scope out the Shied diesel site. They are showing their pumps at about 1260, in-house, (doesn't that mean they'd almost have to have the test bench???) and with all the 'upgraded' stuff from Bosch.

Warrantee; are any of these pumps built differently, or is this just a way to jack more money from us, an insurance policy, per se?? The 1 year pump is usually 3-600 bucks cheaper than the 2 or 3 year pump! c
You're correct Tom, I need to spend time on the phone come Monday. Conjecturing what may or may not be done via a fancy webpage is dangerous!!
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Just gonna list the Mopar stuff:
2000 ram 3500 4X4 reg cab, 6 speed, fass 02 drrp
1998 ram 2500 4X4 reg cab, 12v will have 6 speed to replace the 5, Not sure where it's headed in the mod dept. Stay tuned!
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD, No more EGR, greendiesel eco tune, weeks' intake elbow, hemi torque converter
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Old 03-19-2016, 12:13 PM
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MnTom MnTom is offline
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Well, I can do some digging for you and maybe come up with a bit more info. I have not found a VP manual that I can put in the Downloads section so if you happen to find one.....
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1996 RAM "Custom Ground" 100 plate 3/4 forward, 300 injectors, 16.5 timing, Goerends Auto = 365HP, 833TQ Third Gen Rims, Aluminum Headache Rack
Duct Tape can't fix stupid, BUT it can muffle the sound
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  #5  
Old 03-19-2016, 03:12 PM
kerley kerley is offline
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Does Bosch still manufacture "NEW" VP44's ?
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Old 03-19-2016, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerley View Post
Does Bosch still manufacture "NEW" VP44's ?
A quick Google search didn't show any "New" pumps, just rebuilt. I did find some good stuff on the VP44 and put it in the Downloads section. One is VP44 troubleshooting and the other is a good manual on the operation of all rotary pumps from Bosch including the VE pumps.
It looks to me like there is no 'best' place to get a pump from. It comes down to how comfortable you feel about the vendor.
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1996 RAM "Custom Ground" 100 plate 3/4 forward, 300 injectors, 16.5 timing, Goerends Auto = 365HP, 833TQ Third Gen Rims, Aluminum Headache Rack
Duct Tape can't fix stupid, BUT it can muffle the sound
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Old 03-19-2016, 06:25 PM
kerley kerley is offline
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I did not think there would be any new vp44 for sale. 2002 was the last year they were oem Dodge which is fourteen years. Does Bosch re-build the vp-44?
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Old 03-20-2016, 08:33 AM
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I would think that Bosch would rebuild them. I know there are a few others that do too, but, the expense of the test stand and the computer to put the proper 'program' into the pump computer keeps most resellers out of the rebuild part of it.
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1996 RAM "Custom Ground" 100 plate 3/4 forward, 300 injectors, 16.5 timing, Goerends Auto = 365HP, 833TQ Third Gen Rims, Aluminum Headache Rack
Duct Tape can't fix stupid, BUT it can muffle the sound
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Old 03-21-2016, 09:54 PM
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rancherman rancherman is offline
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ok! got the 'testing' part out of the way.
I did the 'hot wire' test; no start. I could hear the solenoid clicking inside the pump...
Did the voltage test and ground test during 'start and run'.. both check out.
Verdict: seized rotor.
I learned something about these pumps this weekend! During shutdown, there is a circuit that is energized for several seconds, starting at the moment the key is turned off. It's a solenoid that positively shuts off fuel flow during shut down. So not only is there is the solenoid that no longer opens and closes for each firing event, but there is also a 'blocking' solenoid too. I read they are ususally 'on' for several seconds, but mine stayed energized for almost 45 seconds each and every time. Turning the key back to 'run' and it immediately goes to zero volts (like it should).

IF by chance, this is my problem, the pump needs to be replaced nonetheless.
Down to a couple of sources for the replacement pump.. I'm considering Schied, and DAP.
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Just gonna list the Mopar stuff:
2000 ram 3500 4X4 reg cab, 6 speed, fass 02 drrp
1998 ram 2500 4X4 reg cab, 12v will have 6 speed to replace the 5, Not sure where it's headed in the mod dept. Stay tuned!
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD, No more EGR, greendiesel eco tune, weeks' intake elbow, hemi torque converter
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Old 03-22-2016, 07:41 AM
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MnTom MnTom is offline
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That still sucks, but things happen. Both pumps seem to be quality pumps. I wish I had some advise for you, but not having experience with a 24V all I can say is keep us informed. I wish others would chime in.......
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1996 RAM "Custom Ground" 100 plate 3/4 forward, 300 injectors, 16.5 timing, Goerends Auto = 365HP, 833TQ Third Gen Rims, Aluminum Headache Rack
Duct Tape can't fix stupid, BUT it can muffle the sound
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